Comments on: Episode 31.1: Some Religious Nuts Really Are Nuts! https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197 Home of the Liberal Burger Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:33:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Mme Flutterbye https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-599 Mme Flutterbye Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:21:25 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-599 I agree with just about all of the above. The awesome power of the universe does not bow to the Grahams, The Falwells, The Robertsons, all of whom seem to want us to think that they have a special "in" with it (God). It is not beholden to us and does not become an angry, vengeful "god" that the fundamentalists of all religions threaten. In fact, after giving us the tools for living, it has left us on our own. If we do not exhibit love for our fellow man; if we lack real compassion for the less fortunate. if we destroy the planet because of our greed, if we terrorize each other with threats of punishment and violence...then we are lost...it's all up to us. I agree with just about all of the above. The awesome power of the universe does not bow to the Grahams, The Falwells, The Robertsons, all of whom seem to want us to think that they have a special “in” with it (God). It is not beholden to us and does not become an angry, vengeful “god” that the fundamentalists of all religions threaten. In fact, after giving us the tools for living, it has left us on our own. If we do not exhibit love for our fellow man; if we lack real compassion for the less fortunate. if we destroy the planet because of our greed, if we terrorize each other with threats of punishment and violence…then we are lost…it’s all up to us.

]]> By: alwayshope https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-598 alwayshope Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:00:40 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-598 I have come to my own understanding of God through looking into the ideas of several religions and finding I didn't fit into one particular denomination. I sat down leaning against the trunk of a giant redwood once and that experience formed my beliefs. My connection with God is strong when I am attuned with and humbled by nature. I have many flower gardens but one of them is my sacred place. I brought flowers from the woods and planted them under my redbud tree, filling in the spaces with violets of every color and allowed what some call weeds to find a space also. In the spring, it is a kaleidascope of color and fragrance, every inch filled by me or by nature. Every flower and every weed finding their own space to grow. I consider myself a weed. I am determined, don't demand a lot of attention, I don't stand out, but I will bloom and give seed for the birds and sweetness to the bees. I find great peace in the beauty and wonder of nature. I find God in my own yard and am grateful. As a woman, I have difficulty with the sexism of most organized religion. I am not of lesser value than a man. I will not walk behind nor obey nor accept a secondary role simply because I am a woman. Most religions (even Buddhism) undervalue women. Nature does not. When I lay on the grass, a hawk circling above, a butterfly dancing around, my ears noting the difference between the bee and the hummingbird, the fragrance of the lilacs calming my brain, I pray thankfulness and I am rewarded with goosebumps and a tug of the heart that I feel in my bones comes from God. God is love and also God is joy. We can marvel at the majestic gladiola, laugh at the crazy flight of the butterfly, be impressed by the daffodil and crocus and hyacinth as their fragil-looking blooms poke out of the snow and frost and in these things I find joy. Each spring God gives us a brand new chance to bloom and whether we are flowers or weeds, the sun shines and the sky rains on us just the same. I guess, to me, religion is all about the diversity, the seeking, the growing and the fullness of blooming. It can never be about exclusion, certitude, predjudice or fear. Religion shouldn't be a means of control or intimidation, it should be a celebration that causes your step to be lighter along the path of life. If you are filled with joy to be alive, you can not hate others who have chosen a different path to their inner joy and understanding. The road to hell is not paved with good intentions, but rather with nuts who could not grow in the shadows of self-righteousness. Enjoy this beautiful spring day! I'm off to find some mushrooms in the lovely woods nearby. For those who live in a state without the delicious morel morsels, let me know , I'll mail you some. I have come to my own understanding of God through looking into the ideas of several religions and finding I didn’t fit into one particular denomination.
I sat down leaning against the trunk of a giant redwood once and that experience formed my beliefs. My connection with God is strong when I am attuned with and humbled by nature. I have many flower gardens but one of them is my sacred place. I brought flowers from the woods and planted them under my redbud tree, filling in the spaces with violets of every color and allowed what some call weeds to find a space also. In the spring, it is a kaleidascope of color and fragrance, every inch filled by me or by nature.
Every flower and every weed finding their own space to grow.
I consider myself a weed. I am determined, don’t demand a lot of attention,
I don’t stand out, but I will bloom and give seed for the birds and sweetness to the bees. I find great peace in the beauty and wonder of nature. I find God in my own yard and am grateful.
As a woman, I have difficulty with the sexism of most organized religion.
I am not of lesser value than a man. I will not walk behind nor obey nor accept a secondary role simply because I am a woman. Most religions (even Buddhism) undervalue women. Nature does not. When I lay on the grass, a hawk circling above, a butterfly dancing around, my ears noting the difference between the bee and the hummingbird, the fragrance of the lilacs calming my brain, I pray thankfulness and I am rewarded with goosebumps and a tug of the heart that I feel in my bones comes from God. God is love and also God is joy. We can marvel at the majestic gladiola, laugh at the crazy flight of the butterfly, be impressed by the daffodil and crocus and hyacinth as their fragil-looking blooms poke out of the snow and frost and in these things I find joy. Each spring God gives us a brand new chance to bloom and whether we are flowers or weeds, the sun shines and the sky rains on us just the same. I guess, to me, religion is all about the diversity,
the seeking, the growing and the fullness of blooming. It can never be about exclusion, certitude, predjudice or fear. Religion shouldn’t be a means of control or intimidation, it should be a celebration that causes your step to be lighter along the path of life. If you are filled with joy to be alive, you can not hate others who have chosen a different path to their inner joy and understanding. The road to hell is not paved with good intentions, but rather with nuts who could not grow in the shadows of self-righteousness.

Enjoy this beautiful spring day! I’m off to find some mushrooms in the lovely woods nearby. For those who live in a state without the delicious morel morsels, let me know , I’ll mail you some.

]]> By: bansidh https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-597 bansidh Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:41:12 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-597 I watched the whole series of Joseph Campbell with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth. It took watching all of it to get the picture, but that gave me a better understanding of religion then anything else I have ever read or watched. I have a deep dislike of religions in general (although Buddism doesn't seem as bad as most) but I understand why they exist. I just wish that the majority of people could find a better relegion to follow. One that doesn't glorify killing and sexism and elitism and vengence. Sigh, ain't gonna happen is it? I watched the whole series of Joseph Campbell with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth. It took watching all of it to get the picture, but that gave me a better understanding of religion then anything else I have ever read or watched. I have a deep dislike of religions in general (although Buddism doesn’t seem as bad as most) but I understand why they exist. I just wish that the majority of people could find a better relegion to follow. One that doesn’t glorify killing and sexism and elitism and vengence. Sigh, ain’t gonna happen is it?

]]> By: MikeH https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-596 MikeH Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:01:10 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-596 I agree with you about finding the theology of Biblical fundamentalism offensive. Even on Democratic Underground, there are a handful of posters who adhere to a fundamentalist understanding of the Bible and of the Christian faith. They believe a person must, and can only be, "saved" by explicitly accepting Jesus Christ in this lifetime. If a person misses out in this lifetime, too bad. And they have defended supposed acts of God like his punishment of Saul for disobeying his supposed command to slaughter the people of Amalek, or his supposedly sending bears to kill kids for mocking the bald head of the prophet. As one fundamentalist Christian on DU put it in a post, "You don't pull on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ole Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with God. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mocking the Holy Spirit is not a great idea. So says the Bible." If that is what God actually did, then God is no better than a petty, vindictive tyrant, and I responded thus to the above. If you click on my username, you will go to my journal on Democratic Underground; the journals are a new feature. If you scroll down, you will see (among other things) examples of where I have responded to some fundamentalist Christians who have posted in the Religion/Theology forum of DU. Here is my response to the fundamentalist Christian who noted "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline." (Proverbs 1:7) in response to my response to what he said above: Perhaps using one's God-given reason and common sense is [the beginning of knowledge]. Anybody using his/her God-given reason and common sense would reject the absurd and ridiculous notion that a barbaric, capricious, vengeful tribal deity whose accounts are described in ancient writings by people with primitive understandings, and the Creator of the Universe, are one and the same. Not to mention that such identification seems more than a trifle disrespectful and dishonoring of the real Creator. I also added, for the benefit of the atheists on the DU board: My apologies to any atheist who is offended by calling reason and common sense God-given. My post is for people who profess to believe in God. Personal disclosure: I would consider myself closest to being a Deist. Deists believe in God, but do not accept any alleged divine revelation. Deists believe in using reason and common sense. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MikeH/8 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=47115&mesg_id=48492 I agree with you about finding the theology of Biblical fundamentalism offensive.

Even on Democratic Underground, there are a handful of posters who adhere to a fundamentalist understanding of the Bible and of the Christian faith. They believe a person must, and can only be, “saved” by explicitly accepting Jesus Christ in this lifetime. If a person misses out in this lifetime, too bad. And they have defended supposed acts of God like his punishment of Saul for disobeying his supposed command to slaughter the people of Amalek, or his supposedly sending bears to kill kids for mocking the bald head of the prophet.

As one fundamentalist Christian on DU put it in a post,

“You don’t pull on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind,
you don’t pull the mask off the ole Lone Ranger and you don’t mess around with God.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Mocking the Holy Spirit is not a great idea. So says the Bible.”

If that is what God actually did, then God is no better than a petty, vindictive tyrant, and I responded thus to the above.

If you click on my username, you will go to my journal on Democratic Underground; the journals are a new feature. If you scroll down, you will see (among other things) examples of where I have responded to some fundamentalist Christians who have posted in the Religion/Theology forum of DU.

Here is my response to the fundamentalist Christian who noted “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.” (Proverbs 1:7) in response to my response to what he said above:

Perhaps using one’s God-given reason and common sense is [the beginning of knowledge].

Anybody using his/her God-given reason and common sense would reject the absurd and ridiculous notion that a barbaric, capricious, vengeful tribal deity whose accounts are described in ancient writings by people with primitive understandings, and the Creator of the Universe, are one and the same.

Not to mention that such identification seems more than a trifle disrespectful and dishonoring of the real Creator.

I also added, for the benefit of the atheists on the DU board: My apologies to any atheist who is offended by calling reason and common sense God-given. My post is for people who profess to believe in God. Personal disclosure: I would consider myself closest to being a Deist. Deists believe in God, but do not accept any alleged divine revelation. Deists believe in using reason and common sense.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MikeH/8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=47115&mesg_id=48492

]]> By: Chuck https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-595 Chuck Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:35:29 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-595 Are we distinguishing between "faith" and "belief"? Are we distinguishing between “faith” and “belief”?

]]> By: iowametal76 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-589 iowametal76 Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:33:46 +0000 https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=197#comment-589 IF there is a "god," I can't imagine said deity would be all too pleased with the whole concept of religion itself. Religion creates rules - boundaries - on something that is (supposed to be) utterly boundless. Most would agree in one way or another that god is love. Ok, well if that's the case, then I think it would also have to be argued that god is also unconditional love, or in Catholic-based terms, agape love. In other words, boundless and undefinable. To place limits on the limitless, to place human definitions on love, to dictate to god and man the nature of god, flies in the face of the entire root concept of god. Therefore, religion, while largely well-intentioned, runs counter to the concept around which it is based. You can't apply the concepts of "right and wrong" to something like unconditional, agape love. I don't want to contradict myself, because I do think religion as a social construct is largely well-intentioned. It's important to the human psyche to be able to corral one's faith in ways one can you know, wrap one's head around. There is great spiritual, mental and physical comfort to be found in coming together with others who view faith in a similar manner. It's just when the organized faith of a group is based in fear and used as a persecutorial weapon that it becomes dangerous and an afront to the concept of god being boundless, agape love. This is an area where Western Religion could do well to take a lesson from Eastern Religion (and the Jedi, for that matter) and learn to let go. Let go of the fear that is at the root of persecution and just accept that "god" is love and that we are all one, and that the trappings of a particular religion don't matter one goddamn bit. It's funny... for the most part, all of the religions mankind has created throughout history are really very similar, and rely on many of the same fundamental concepts. They all basically boil down to unconditional love. It's tragic, and perhaps mankind's ultimate folly that religions have blinded so many to these similarities. The power of fear is truly amazing. Almost as amazing as the power of love, or... "god." IF there is a “god,” I can’t imagine said deity would be all too pleased with the whole concept of religion itself. Religion creates rules - boundaries - on something that is (supposed to be) utterly boundless. Most would agree in one way or another that god is love. Ok, well if that’s the case, then I think it would also have to be argued that god is also unconditional love, or in Catholic-based terms, agape love. In other words, boundless and undefinable. To place limits on the limitless, to place human definitions on love, to dictate to god and man the nature of god, flies in the face of the entire root concept of god. Therefore, religion, while largely well-intentioned, runs counter to the concept around which it is based.
You can’t apply the concepts of “right and wrong” to something like unconditional, agape love.
I don’t want to contradict myself, because I do think religion as a social construct is largely well-intentioned. It’s important to the human psyche to be able to corral one’s faith in ways one can you know, wrap one’s head around. There is great spiritual, mental and physical comfort to be found in coming together with others who view faith in a similar manner. It’s just when the organized faith of a group is based in fear and used as a persecutorial weapon that it becomes dangerous and an afront to the concept of god being boundless, agape love.
This is an area where Western Religion could do well to take a lesson from Eastern Religion (and the Jedi, for that matter) and learn to let go. Let go of the fear that is at the root of persecution and just accept that “god” is love and that we are all one, and that the trappings of a particular religion don’t matter one goddamn bit.
It’s funny… for the most part, all of the religions mankind has created throughout history are really very similar, and rely on many of the same fundamental concepts. They all basically boil down to unconditional love. It’s tragic, and perhaps mankind’s ultimate folly that religions have blinded so many to these similarities.
The power of fear is truly amazing. Almost as amazing as the power of love, or… “god.”

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