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	<title>Comments on: Episode 36.2: Speaking the Forbidden Word: Impeachment</title>
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	<link>https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jodin</title>
		<link>https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>Jodin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 17:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Arguments Against Impeachment...
•But won't we then get President Cheney?
Any impeachment process would include Cheney, and probably Rumsfeld and Rice. It would also disgrace the entire Bush Administration.

•We should wait until after Democrats gain majority status after the November elections, or else we'll seem too 'extreme.'
SHEDDING LIGHT ON BUSH'S CRIMES AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S COMPLICITY IN THOSE CRIMES IS THE BEST WAY TO GET DEMOCRATS ELECTED. Demanding impeachment is one effective way of doing that. (We need a Democratic majority in Congress in order to get subpoena power. This will allow us to finally investigate the crimes that this administration has been committing, which will lead to impeachment.)

Secondly, demanding that crimes be investigated IS NOT extreme.
 
Further, waiting until November - in addition to hurting us in the elections - will leave us complicit in any further crimes Bush commits. The Union of Concerned Scientists has estimated that the death toll from a "tactical" nuclear weapon of the kind Bush is contemplating using in Iran would be at minimum 3 million men, women, and children. The path of death would stretch across country boundaries into India. 
  
Also, there's no guarantee Democrats will gain majority status after the November elections. So our strategy shouldn't rely upon it.
 
•It'll never happen, the republicans will block it.
Today's impossibility is tomorrow's reality. All we need is for a few Republican Congress members to realize that tying their political future to Bush reduces their chances of getting elected. Remember, one way or another, Bush is gone by 2008 — but members of Congress may retain their offices beyond that date. Bush's poll numbers are extremely low, and most Americans support impeachment. This means that if we make the pressure unbearable for Republican members of Congress, they'll turn on him to keep their own seats (like they did with Nixon). It's already starting to happen. While the Republicans have behaved unethically in the last few years, it's important to understand that this is related to their warped view of what's in their self-interest. Let's wake them up to their true self-interest (impeaching the president), by showing them our support for impeachment now! 

Finally , making sure you can look back and be proud of your opposition to this tyranny is priceless.

•It hurts the democracy to go through a presidential impeachment.
Holding government officials accountable for their actions strengthens our democracy. Letting lawlessness stand weakens it.

•If we don't support our president, we aid the terrorists.
We support terrorism when we fail to deal with its root causes (poverty, lack of education, support of dictatorships, etc.). We also support it by enabling a president who creates breeding grounds for terrorists — like Iraq has now become, thanks to our invasion and occupation. 

Middle Eastern countries upset with the oppressive international policies of the past and current administration might think better of the U.S. if we appeared to learn from our mistakes by impeaching a president who has been so instrumental in that oppression.
 
Side note:
Some Democratic Members of Congress have indicated that they're not currently pursuing impeachment. While this is upsetting, they percieve it to be in their (and the DFLs) political best interest. At least until the political pressure builds. There are also other reasons they're waiting. But, one of the things they're waiting for is us. We are part of the process. They're waiting for us to help them out, by legitimizing their support for the process. Having millions of memorials arrive at their door is how that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arguments Against Impeachment&#8230;<br />
•But won&#8217;t we then get President Cheney?<br />
Any impeachment process would include Cheney, and probably Rumsfeld and Rice. It would also disgrace the entire Bush Administration.</p>
<p>•We should wait until after Democrats gain majority status after the November elections, or else we&#8217;ll seem too &#8216;extreme.&#8217;<br />
SHEDDING LIGHT ON BUSH&#8217;S CRIMES AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY&#8217;S COMPLICITY IN THOSE CRIMES IS THE BEST WAY TO GET DEMOCRATS ELECTED. Demanding impeachment is one effective way of doing that. (We need a Democratic majority in Congress in order to get subpoena power. This will allow us to finally investigate the crimes that this administration has been committing, which will lead to impeachment.)</p>
<p>Secondly, demanding that crimes be investigated IS NOT extreme.</p>
<p>Further, waiting until November - in addition to hurting us in the elections - will leave us complicit in any further crimes Bush commits. The Union of Concerned Scientists has estimated that the death toll from a &#8220;tactical&#8221; nuclear weapon of the kind Bush is contemplating using in Iran would be at minimum 3 million men, women, and children. The path of death would stretch across country boundaries into India. </p>
<p>Also, there&#8217;s no guarantee Democrats will gain majority status after the November elections. So our strategy shouldn&#8217;t rely upon it.</p>
<p>•It&#8217;ll never happen, the republicans will block it.<br />
Today&#8217;s impossibility is tomorrow&#8217;s reality. All we need is for a few Republican Congress members to realize that tying their political future to Bush reduces their chances of getting elected. Remember, one way or another, Bush is gone by 2008 — but members of Congress may retain their offices beyond that date. Bush&#8217;s poll numbers are extremely low, and most Americans support impeachment. This means that if we make the pressure unbearable for Republican members of Congress, they&#8217;ll turn on him to keep their own seats (like they did with Nixon). It&#8217;s already starting to happen. While the Republicans have behaved unethically in the last few years, it&#8217;s important to understand that this is related to their warped view of what&#8217;s in their self-interest. Let&#8217;s wake them up to their true self-interest (impeaching the president), by showing them our support for impeachment now! </p>
<p>Finally , making sure you can look back and be proud of your opposition to this tyranny is priceless.</p>
<p>•It hurts the democracy to go through a presidential impeachment.<br />
Holding government officials accountable for their actions strengthens our democracy. Letting lawlessness stand weakens it.</p>
<p>•If we don&#8217;t support our president, we aid the terrorists.<br />
We support terrorism when we fail to deal with its root causes (poverty, lack of education, support of dictatorships, etc.). We also support it by enabling a president who creates breeding grounds for terrorists — like Iraq has now become, thanks to our invasion and occupation. </p>
<p>Middle Eastern countries upset with the oppressive international policies of the past and current administration might think better of the U.S. if we appeared to learn from our mistakes by impeaching a president who has been so instrumental in that oppression.</p>
<p>Side note:<br />
Some Democratic Members of Congress have indicated that they&#8217;re not currently pursuing impeachment. While this is upsetting, they percieve it to be in their (and the DFLs) political best interest. At least until the political pressure builds. There are also other reasons they&#8217;re waiting. But, one of the things they&#8217;re waiting for is us. We are part of the process. They&#8217;re waiting for us to help them out, by legitimizing their support for the process. Having millions of memorials arrive at their door is how that happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-728</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 02:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-728</guid>
		<description>Try this link for a do it yourself impeach kit.  I don't know how legal it really is,but it's worth a shot:  http://impeachforpeace.org then go to the left sid &#38; under the teeshirt click on the do it yourself form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try this link for a do it yourself impeach kit.  I don&#8217;t know how legal it really is,but it&#8217;s worth a shot:  <a href="http://impeachforpeace.org" rel="nofollow">http://impeachforpeace.org</a> then go to the left sid &amp; under the teeshirt click on the do it yourself form.</p>
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		<title>By: alwayshope</title>
		<link>https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>alwayshope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 20:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-725</guid>
		<description>That is a great question by Horace. 
It should be asked repeatedly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a great question by Horace.<br />
It should be asked repeatedly.</p>
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		<title>By: orbitalman</title>
		<link>https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>orbitalman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 17:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=286#comment-722</guid>
		<description>I am always amazed that people do not think about or understand strategy.  So many ideas and commentaries are based in reaction rather than having been thought through.  The idea of impeachment is a valid one but its strategy is also based in timing.

My dad used to punish me after I did something wrong but he never hauled off and hit me in anger immediately.  It would be perhaps hours or days before he meted that punishment out.  Then he would tell me how badly he felt that he had to do what he had to do and lecture me on my wrongdoing.  He thought about that punishment and then proceeded with purpose.  Then a willow switch might be broken from the huge willow tree in the back yard as I watched and received a sound, stinging switching.  

In thinking about the severe straights America is now in, my strategy is as follows:

Briefly, the first correction has to be an honest and provable ballot box.  Without that, change cannot begin to take place.  Its importance is of the greatest immediacy of my lifetime.  The democrats can then take both houses of congress fairly instead of being stolen from them.  When that is accomplished, impeachment inquiries can then begin.  It would include at least the president and the vice president.

Upon impeachment, the house speaker would become president; but not Dennis Hastert.  The speaker would now be a democrat, as president.  We would have up to two years to begin straightening out our colossal mess before the 2008 elections instead of two final years of American world debauchery.  

In the meantime, criminal charges and indictments would begin against many in the “old” Bush administration.  If it had to go all the way to the Hague, so be it.  It would begin to prove to the world America had lost it’s way entirely.  

Criminal charges prosecuted would lead to appropriate sentences.  I do not believe in the death penalty.  On the other hand, the current president and vice-president have been so evil, its cancer must be completely cut out and eradicated.  Therefore, I would make an exception and they should receive the “death penalty.”  I know some of you might believe a comparison of Bush to Hitler is nothing short of preposterous;  but I see no difference.  The difference is not between thousands upon thousands and millions killed.  It is what they have done and their intent that matters.

In the end, no additional harm can ever be done by these people and the fundamentalist religious right can go back into their holes and claim persecution.  Fine.  America can become great again without “God taking sides” and a tolerance unparalleled to get along with the rest of the world with every diplomacy first.  Let’s get on with it.  We all need to adopt strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am always amazed that people do not think about or understand strategy.  So many ideas and commentaries are based in reaction rather than having been thought through.  The idea of impeachment is a valid one but its strategy is also based in timing.</p>
<p>My dad used to punish me after I did something wrong but he never hauled off and hit me in anger immediately.  It would be perhaps hours or days before he meted that punishment out.  Then he would tell me how badly he felt that he had to do what he had to do and lecture me on my wrongdoing.  He thought about that punishment and then proceeded with purpose.  Then a willow switch might be broken from the huge willow tree in the back yard as I watched and received a sound, stinging switching.  </p>
<p>In thinking about the severe straights America is now in, my strategy is as follows:</p>
<p>Briefly, the first correction has to be an honest and provable ballot box.  Without that, change cannot begin to take place.  Its importance is of the greatest immediacy of my lifetime.  The democrats can then take both houses of congress fairly instead of being stolen from them.  When that is accomplished, impeachment inquiries can then begin.  It would include at least the president and the vice president.</p>
<p>Upon impeachment, the house speaker would become president; but not Dennis Hastert.  The speaker would now be a democrat, as president.  We would have up to two years to begin straightening out our colossal mess before the 2008 elections instead of two final years of American world debauchery.  </p>
<p>In the meantime, criminal charges and indictments would begin against many in the “old” Bush administration.  If it had to go all the way to the Hague, so be it.  It would begin to prove to the world America had lost it’s way entirely.  </p>
<p>Criminal charges prosecuted would lead to appropriate sentences.  I do not believe in the death penalty.  On the other hand, the current president and vice-president have been so evil, its cancer must be completely cut out and eradicated.  Therefore, I would make an exception and they should receive the “death penalty.”  I know some of you might believe a comparison of Bush to Hitler is nothing short of preposterous;  but I see no difference.  The difference is not between thousands upon thousands and millions killed.  It is what they have done and their intent that matters.</p>
<p>In the end, no additional harm can ever be done by these people and the fundamentalist religious right can go back into their holes and claim persecution.  Fine.  America can become great again without “God taking sides” and a tolerance unparalleled to get along with the rest of the world with every diplomacy first.  Let’s get on with it.  We all need to adopt strategy.</p>
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