Question of the day: Will the Bush crowd ever face justice?
Impeachment, while much deserved, seems unlikely. There is also the possibility of criminal investigations and prosecutions after Bush leaves office. While this would do nothing to end the administration’s current reign of terror, it would at least provide some small vindication for the rule of law. Another possibility, though unlikely under American tradition, would be some sort of truth and reconciliation process: exposing the crimes of the Bush years to public scrutiny and censure, but demanding no legal penalty.
So what do you think? Will Bush and/or his cronies ever face justice in any form for their many crimes?
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October 1st, 2007 at 12:47 am
If there is any justice left in this world, they will. However, I wont hold my breath waiting for it. Can’t you just hear the next cadre of politicians piously proclaiming that “For the sake of the country, we will not pursue further action.” They would sell justice down the river for a few paltry votes, and do it in an instant. They fear losing campaign contributions(some fat cats hedge their bets) far more than they value justice. No one, other than Kucinich might attempt to force Bush to pay for his crimes; and Kucinich doesnt have a snowball’s chance in Hell of winning the nomination. You can bet the farm, Hillary wouldnt pursue it. Bush and his Cabal should be prosecuted, as a mighty example that such behavior will never again be tolerated in this country. Unfortunately, politicians run the government, and few of them have the courage of any convictions. Sorry if my cynicism is showing…….
I hold out more hope for Bush and Cheney being tried for “Crimes against Humanity” in absentia, at the Hague; but even there, it is a long shot.
October 1st, 2007 at 5:14 am
No F****NG way.
Only small fry receive “justice”. Bush will be busy “fillin’ the ol’ coffers”, unhindered.
Condi will be back a Berkely as if nothing ever happened.
None of the rest of the gang will pay 1 cent in fines, nor serve one day in prison.
This is simply in line with the American judicial system. The biggest crimes are never prosecuted.
October 1st, 2007 at 6:00 am
If they ever do, it will be long past any meaningful timeframe when something other than punitive action is possible.
October 1st, 2007 at 6:42 am
The people who have been either elected or “placed” in charge of the government of the U.S. have completely sold out to the effort by the neocons to undo the constitution. Do Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Gonzales, et al deserve punishment for their crimes? Of course. They are, every one of them traitors and murderers of the worst sort.
But will anything happen to them? Of course not. The U.S. no longer has the will to fight for itself. Even people I admire - Amy Goodman and Thom Hartmann to name two, back off bringing to light the murderous start to this regime - the demolition of the WTC. IMO this is the one last possibility for any hope to bring a smattering of truth to the public.
Following the words of the Serenity Prayer, I have seen that I need to accept that which I cannot change. This doesn’t mean I cease my efforts to get 9/11 truth public. I’ll do that no matter what. What I accept that I cannot change is that those in political power are going to do nothing to substantively resolve the present situation. I hope, still following the serenity prayer, that I have been wise enough to know the difference. It is sad and hard to accept this, but short of some sort of miracle (which I always hold out hope for) any change that is going to occur is going to take a long, long time.
The neocons brought this slashing attack on our constitution and on the people of the world with the implementation of their own “Pearl Harbor.” A “Reverse Pearl Harbor,” where their complicity and guilt is revealed to all is probably the only way to speed things up.
regards,
donilo
October 1st, 2007 at 7:39 am
Worse than Pearl Harbor. Worse than Watergate. The worse catastrophe this country has ever been placed in by people who are supposed to be lovingly caring for it. These “people” love only themselves and their cronies who can help them. They have murdered the Constitution!. They MUST be punished, if just to show others that “crime does not pay!” IMPEACHMENT is the only answer. Start with Cheney. Support Kuchinich’s bill already in congress.
October 1st, 2007 at 7:54 am
WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS. This is what we are told from the first remembrances of CIVIC COOPERATION. WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS. We are conditioned to follow the laws of our communities, respectively. We are taught that hard working, honest, people that FOLLOW THE LAW are rewarded, and people that BREAK THE LAWS suffer consequences.
This band of TREASONOUS CRIMINALS have lied to get AMERICA into an ILLEGAL INVASION of A SOVERIEGN NATION, that had absolutely nothing to do with TERRORISM, PERIOD. They have set it up so that AMERICAN TAXPAYER MONIES are distributed amongst SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS by way of awarding NO BID CONTRACTS to the very companies that those EXECUTIVES were in charge of just prior to them taking their respective positions in this current administration.
This administration has TOTALLY DISCARDED OUR CONSTITUTION, and attempted to implement laws that will undoubtedly be found to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
This administration has constantly INTRUDED into the personal lives of ordinary citizens, breaking so many of our laws that one would have to consult an attorney just to know where to begin.
All of this and I haven’t even gotten to THE OATH that these CRIMINALS all took to hold their respective positions in this current administration, which actually charges each and every one of those TRAITORS with the task of PROTECTING AND DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION, not the PEOPLE, or THE CORPORATIONS.
Now I will add to the CULMINATION of CRIMES. That which is the most DISPICABLE.
The amount of AMERICAN BLOOD, which at last count stood at over 3800 soldiers killed in action, not to mention the IRAQI BLOOD, which depending on whatever poll you choose to believe, ranges from approximately 45,000 INNOCENT CIVILIANS to over 600,000(IRAQI) people killed, pouring over the hands of those EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS of this CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.
This BAND of TREASONOUS CRIMINALS cannot be allowed to ESCAPE from OUR LAWS without being held ACCOUNTABLE for the crimes they have committed against the AMERICAN PEOPLE. They must also be made to stand for the HORRIFIC ATROCITIES committed against the country of IRAQ. IT IS TIME FOR IMPEACHMENT. AFTER ALL WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS
October 1st, 2007 at 8:04 am
If Bush and Cheney’s band of criminals were to face charges the process would already be in place. The current leadership in congress has abdicated it’s constitutional duty by turning it’s back on the people. Policy no longer is driven by what “We the People”want anymore, it’s now “We the Corporations” that rule the day.
Hitler must be dancing in hell right now because his dreams of global facism are coming true.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:15 am
Using the late Leona Helmsley’s statement about taxes, I’m afraid that justice is only for the “little people.” Moral midgets with big bucks and “important” connections escape justice, especially with the current crop of spineless Democrats who could bring the cabal to justics.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:30 am
I agree with donilo and commend the references to the neocons. I feel that the media and our liberal leadership have failed the American people by not educating them on the pervasive, insidious existence of the neocons and their influence in our government. (By this time, “neocon” should be a toxic household word. Most rightwingers have no clue to its meaning.)
Ironically, Bush’s “election” and its subsequent catastrophic consequences have started me doubting the existence of God and the value of religion. Therefore, I feel that society has a duty to hold these people– Bush, Cheney, and their neocon cohorts–accountable for their crimes. If there is a God, well, maybe he will handle their demise. On the other hand, if there is no God, it is imperative that we take the responsibility to insure that people like them NEVER, EVER be allowed to be in power again.
The way to insure that is to expose their purpose, their premeditation, their lies, and their crimes; and to, hopefully, bring them to justice.
Do I think it will happen? NO.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:47 am
If we still have a democracy in the future, then historians will eventually tell the tale of callousness, deceit, corruption and wholesale murder that is the bush legacy. For now, the media will insulate bush from any serious investigation and the Congress will refuse to rock the boat, lest they get a little wet. No, no justice for bush (in this world).
However, I do believe that his crimes will be well known and he will be a pathetic, hated little man left to defend his “good” intentions with more fantasy and denial. War, racism and bitterness will be bush’s gift to America and we will be busy trying to save ourselves while he slinks off to Texas and rides his bike. Nothing good will ever come from anything he touches and I hope this includes the GOP. When their ranks are reduced to the hardcore KKKristians, their influence will be minimal. I only hope it isn’t too late to repair the damage they’ve done. With another year left and global warming and maybe another war or two, bush may lead us right on over that cliff. In fact, we are a lost people right now. Confused, angry and afraid, we lash out against each other and the world because the promise has been broken and our trust betrayed. Hope, honor, freedom and truth are just words that have lost all meaning. When bush speaks these words, they become empty codewords for intolerance, selfishness, war, conformity and greed. His wars, against Muslims, against democracy, against the poor, against people of color, against us will not stop when (and if) he leaves the white house. We may blame him angrily for the state of our nation for years to come, but he’ll never accept that blame. He’ll believe he was right until the day the devil collects his miserable soul (if he has one).
“Only the man who has enough good in him to feel the justice of the penalty, can be punished”-William Hocking
“Justice is like a train that is nearly always late” - Yevtushenko
October 1st, 2007 at 10:38 am
I like these thoughtful comments. I certainly wouldn’t rely on Bush inc. to be prosecuted after they get out of office. For, myself, I think we should do everything we can to have the House impeach him (them) before he leaves office. Not so much that Bush/Cheney are a tyrants, but because of the damage they have caused to the Constitution and how they have opened the door for more like them to take control of the country.
I like to think that the nation and government does, in fact, still belong to the People.(In contrast to Burma.) Not just Bush, but the entire government has failed us since 2000 election. There has been no checks and balances…at all. As a show of the People’s ownership of the government, I think we should vote the entire Senate out of office…even the good guys. I pick on the Senate, because not a single Senator came forward to challenge the Supreme Court’s Bush vs. Gore ruling in 2000. And look how it turned out. So, I say, dispense with the whole lot…100 Senators and replace them with new blood.. Of course, I’m in Lah Lah land. That will never happen because the people are too complacent or divided or simply to busy.. But, in theory, it’s possible.
In the meantime, I think impeaching Bush is imperative to the welfare of the nation. I have written my congressman, and I shall write him again…encouraging him to start investigations into the Administration’s impeachable charges. (Which there are many). I would encourage others to do the same. You can see the long-winded version of my rant on my new blog. http://chickensandall.blogspot.com/
Thanks for yours…its a good one.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:50 am
I don’t think so. We have seen so many that have been let scottsfree. We could already have sued Rumsfeld, but have we? This Administration has corrupted so many people, they would not have the nerve to talk real big. A big pity and a sad state of affairs.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:56 am
if the people want to fry them, they will. great thing about democracy is that it guarantees precisely the government you deserve.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:57 am
isn’t the president immune from ordinary criminal prosecution for deeds done while in office?
October 1st, 2007 at 12:22 pm
I see a lot of support for impeachment. That’s great! I’m all for it. But I’m almost positive it won’t happen. Much as we want some sort of justice to happen, the blindfold has been taken off of justice and the scale has been taken out of her hand.
That’s why I cling to the wild hope that the atrocity of 9/11 will be made public enough so that it might actually stir something in people. Nothing else seems to have stirred them - even the outright slaughter of around a million people!
That’s my take on this - the only meaningful action remaining to push for is to try to undo the “shock and awe” of 9/11 with the “shock and awe” of the revelation of those who perpetrated it, and who murdered over 3 thousand citizens of our own country to “have their way.”
I’m sure there are many of us who would love to be the ones to turn the key for the jail cell containing each and every one of these traitors - and then throw it in the river. Better yet, the jail should be a replica of Guantanamo. Reality, for me, says we won’t get that chance. Let’s do what we can do at least. Help make 9/11 more public.
regards,
donilo
October 1st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
There’s no way. The founders blew it. The idea that impeachment was going to be an efficient way to hold a President accountable for a crime or indiscretion is a joke. It takes a super majortiy in congress to even convict him and accomplish anything. Of course who am I to judge the omniscient founders, I have never owned any slaves or killed any Natives?
October 1st, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Bush the tyrant, will never be held accountable for any of his many UN-Constitutional actions he has done since day one. He not only gave himself all the Un-Constitutional powers he has, but he forced the Cognress to pass a law just for him to make it so he can never be held accountable for anything he did while President ! He has known all along that everything he has done has been UN-Constitutional and illegal including all his many invasion wars, (more than anyone is aware of !) Actually he has voided his office and is NOT the Constitutional President since the very first treasonous act he did !
He is Lincoln all over again, only this time he is doing it to the whole world !
But then no one would know about that here in America, since no one has been allowed to be taught TRUE history.
Bush will never be held accountable and in fact, I guarantee the Elitist Federatlists who write history, will make him out to be some kind of ‘hero’ just like they did Lincoln .
October 1st, 2007 at 8:19 pm
I used to think that they would be impeached and that the truth would come out about both of the stolen elections. I have called my congress people at least weekly for 6 1/2 years. I thought when the democrates took over the house and senate this year that things would change. It’s been almost 3 months sense Harriet refused to face the house. Alberto lied 3 months ago. They have not done a thing. They are more interested in passing a children’s health care package on the backs of the smokers, passing laws on popcorn factories, allowing george to spy on us, jail us without representation and giving king george a blank check to give to his friends the contracters to do what is right. Today I realize that the fact that the senate and congress are suppost to be a check and balance is just a myth. That’s all that America is about myths. You play be the rules, work hard, pay your taxes and obey the laws and you will get nowhere.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 am
I believe that the crimes of this current bunch go so deep that to begin the process of investigation would start an unravelling of the American psyche that we could not recover from. There are some that might conclude that I am a freakish conspiracy theorist but I make no apology. I am convinced that 9-11 could have been averted
but that it was “allowed” to happen so - in the volcabulary of the Project For The New American Century authors - it would ‘galvinize American support’ for a war in the Middle East. I believe that when Carnahan was running against Ashcroft and his plane went down it was more than mere coincidence. I am convinced that, likewise, when Paul Wellstone’s plane went down it was Cheney’s call . . . remember Coleman was Cheneys hand-picked man. The anthrax which targeted, Daschle and Rather and various Liberal targets? It didn’t work but they figured out a way to get rid of those two eventually in other ways.
No, there will never be justice for the subterfuge and treason that this administration deals in. I just want them to go away.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:25 am
This administrations politically organized criminal activities, and contempt for our laws with illegal wiretaps, and spying, election , and war scams, and the theft of billions while ignoring our constitution,and Katrina victims, will be the legacy of this administrations corrupt takeover of this country for power and greed. Will they ever see Justice? With the billions stolen, courts stacked, and illegal information they’ve gotten on others, I would be surprised and the billions they’ll get from stolen oil revenues, they’ll be powerful enough to get away with it. Remember Ken Lay who after stealing 100’s of millions with the Eron scam died and was cremated? He’s rich enough, plus knows too much to ever have served in jail. He’s smiling somewhere, crime pays well.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 am
Think about it, when the gang of thieves infiltrated the republican party, they did the same with the democratic party; you are witnessing the good guy-bad guy routine. The robber barons are in full stride because they are organized. There master plan was to infiltrate the political and religious entities, dominate the media, which enabled them to influence the minds of the massive followers of ignorance.
They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams; taken over the most powerful nation on the planet with plain old BS.
Vanclaren, has given you the answer if you still believe in voting, clean house; like Vanclaren, I doubt very seriously, it will ever happen.
All politicians lie and until the people recognize that and hold them accountable, nothing will change for the better. Money buys politicians and once they accept it, death certifies their loyalty.
Reality is the salvation of hope. Bs is the nourishment of a dope!
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Heres the letter I sent to my congressman. You’re welcome to it ..or any part of it. Or maybe get a idea and do a better job of it…thanx…v
October 2, 2007
Dear Congressman…..,
I hope all goes well with you.
I wrote you earlier this year on the subject of impeachment. But seeing no results anywhere, (or in case you didn’t get that letter) I thought I would try one more time.
Please consider my opinion:
I firmly believe that U.S. House should initiate an investigation into the Administration’s alleged impeachable charges, and that failure to do so, will have a lasting detrimental effect on America for generations.
Some arguments might arise against impeachment of Bush/Cheney, such as:
1) Bush is leaving office soon anyway…maybe the next President will patch things up.
2) We can’t impeach a president during time of war.
3) Since Congress allowed Bush to Invade Iraq, and violate the Constitution in so many way….they would only implicate themselves.
4) Why bother…when there is not a sufficient majority to indict?
5) Things are settling down in Iraq…so maybe the President was right all along.
These arguments, in my view, do not sanctify the abandonment of justice.
So, unless Congress has recently passed laws to dissolve the Nation or abolish the Constitution of the United States, I believe that the people, at least, deserve a proper investigation of the Bush administration’s activities…in terms of the several charges of misconduct levied against it.
If this investigation finds the Administration innocent of wrong doing…good, let that come out. Though if they have violated laws…then, that should be brought to light. And if Congress has violated laws…that too should come out. In either case, the people deserve a reckoning; for these past six years of questionable government.
What will be the legacy of the 110th Congress? Will it be…
a) ….The Congress that defended the Constitution and preserved the nation? or
b) …The Congress that totally failed the American people?
I think it will be one of those…and nothing else.
Future generations of civics students will look back and say, “This 110th Congress is the one that failed us. That was the Congress that cowered before a tyrannous President…and served his every bidding. They were the ones who sacrificed our Nation to preserve their own political and private desires. These were the years the entire government turned away from the people; and abandoned the Constitution ”
Or, the alternative: They will look back and say “This 110th Congress is the one that lawfully challenged the most contemptuous of Administrations; and secured justice for the People and the Nation. This, class, is an excellent model of how our government is meant to work.”
Perhaps, if anyone is in doubt of whether to impeach or not impeach President Bush, they could ask the question: “What would our Founders do?”
“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.” –Thomas Jefferson
.
Yours truly…..v
———-
Enough to impeach, ten times over:
1. U.S. House Resolution (HR 3655), introduced by John Conyer
2. Senate Resolution 302
3. DVD Documentary, “On Native Soil”.
4. DVD Documentary, Iraq for Sale-THE WAR PROFITEERS–DVD ***** [a must see.]
See trailer: http://iraqforsale.org/trailer.php
Watch Full Program: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6621486727392146155
[Opening this link starts the program (video stream.) It runs about 45 minuets.]
Order DVD: http://iraqforsale.org/
5. Three of several books dedicated to the subject of Impeaching President Bush:
a) The Case for Impeachment –the legal Argument for removing President George W. Bush from Office
Dave Lindorff and Barbara Olshansky; St. Martin Press; 2006
b) The Genius of Impeachment –The Founders’ Cure for Royalism
John Nichols –New York Press; 2006
c) The Articles of Impeachment against George W. Bush.
Center for Constitutional Rights
6. Blatant Obstruction of Justice and outrageous Abuse of Power;
a) Inhibiting the 9/11 investigation;
b) Pardoning Scooter Libby;
c) Preventing witnesses from testifying before Senate Judiciary, claiming ‘executive privilege;
d) exploiting a national tragedy to advance a personal agenda…all with horrific consequences
e) killing tens of thousands of people, unnecessarily.
7. General incompetence in times of crises like Katrina and 9/11.
8. “An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.” –Thomas Jefferson.
In other words, failure to impeach, now, would be a direct insult to those who fought and died for the government to which Jefferson is referring.
9. Contempt for the Constitution–”the supreme Law of the Land”
” It has been established, however, by the Nixon impeachment precedent that the constitutional standard does not require proof of criminal conduct. Rather, “high crimes and misdemeanors” are “constitutional wrongs that subvert the structure of government or undermine the integrity of office… and the Constitution itself…” House Rep. 93-1305, pp. 6-7 (93d Cong., 2d Sess. 1974. http://inetresults.com/impeach/strategy.htm
10. On general principal, by Treating the Constitution, the American people, the Congress, and International community with complete impunity.
[an impeachable charge is] “…whatever a majority of the House considers it to be at any given moment in history.”–Congressman Gerald Ford (during the 1973 impeachment proceedings for Chief Justice William O. Douglas)
“The Power of impeachment is the Constitution’s paramount power of self preservation” –Representative Robert McCloy…Republican, Ill, 1974
When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principals. Other correction is either useless or a new evil.” –Thomas Jefferson [Nichols pg. 160]
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand beside the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American people.” –Abraham Lincoln
“What separates us from terrorists is not simply that our principals are deeply offended by the idea of torture or the murdering of innocents, but that we are a nation of laws. Our principals are enshrined in our Constitution and a system of duly enacted laws, and a government where all are accountable and no one is above the law.” –Barbara Lee, Congress, Democrat CA [Nichols pg. 157]
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted.” –Dwight Eisenhower
“Of course George Bush and Dick Cheney have committed acts that would merit impeachment. In a proper country, they would be tried as traitors. You don’t lie to a country, get it into war, waste a trillion dollars, kill a lot of people all because of you vanity and lust for oil and admiration for your corporate partners. If that isn’t treason, I don’t know what is.” –Gore Vidal, from forward of the Genius of Impeachment…The founders Cure for Royalism; 2006